On Sunday Chris and his guests will discuss the significance of Memorial Day, its history, and how we grieve for dead soldiers and people in other countries. Also, a look at new polling which shows a shift in issues of morality, such as gay marriage and abortion. And a discussion on new data which shows a large number of wrongful convictions and death penalty sentences.
Joining Chris will be:
Michelle Goldberg (@michelleinbklyn), author of The Means of Reproduction: Sex, Power and the Future of the World.
Liliana Segura (@lilianasegura), associate editor at The Nation.
John McWhorter, professor of linguistics and American studies at Columbia University.
Michael Brendan Dougherty (@michaelbd), politics editor at Business Insider.
Mary Kirkland, mother of Private Derrick Kirkland (1987-2010).
Barry Scheck (@barryscheck), co-founder of The Innocence Project and co-author of Actual Innocence: Five Days to Execution and Other Dispatches from the Wrongfully Convicted.
Lt. Col. Steve Beck, active duty Marine, casualty assistance officer, and associate professor of naval science at Carnegie Mellon University.
:: Blogged by Brett Brownell (@brettbrownell), Up w/ Chris Hayes web & video producer ::
Leave a Comment:
Chris, we are still covering too much social challenges not balanced against to awesome threat facing all of us rapidly moving to beyond adaptability. Des that bother you having claimed climate change as your mission?
Sunday is actually the 27th.
I was at the gym when I watch your piece on the FB IPO and when it centered on green shoe.
I am a 27 year vet of wall street.
Your depiction of the IPO process is and specially the shoe wa pityfull.
I often talk on Bloomberg and other international media. I would be happy to give you the real depiction of what an IPO is including the shoe.
People who lost money in this IPO are sorry losers (and that includes my wife)
That message is sure to get you on TV, nothing like a little arrogance and condescension to endear you to others.
Chris!!! I love you and your show. You are so brilliant! Between you and Rachel Maddow during the week. My life is complete every single dsy! AND when you are on her show -- I was super excited ! I think your mind is oh so amazing.
The person who updates the blog made a typo. Its ok .. I don't even know what day it is half the time :) Sunday is in fact the 27th :)
I would love to meet you! Just saying. Just coffee. I want to pick your brain! :)
Chris. I am uncomfortable calling you a journalist or TV show host or whatever. Let me put it another way. It's almost like, if you constantly celebrate homosexuality and transgender operations, you are, in fact, running the risk of just 'creating' more of it. Or Nanny-statism...praising fun-employment, the 'Julia' facade, and the like is 'rhetorically proximate' to promogating sloth and government dependence. Is it like that?
In case you're wondering, this is in response to Chris' statement about not feeling comfortable calling the war dead heroes.
Soldiers who put their lives on the line for the country are heroes. I'm uncomfortable with Chris getting money and recognition for making idiotic remarks that malign every person who has served. Idiot.
not every soldier is a hero. I think that was Chris' point. just because a person wears a uniform does not make him or her a hero. in addition, while soldiers are at times called to defend our nation, recent wars we have fought have not been to defend us.
besides, teachers are heroes too! and nurses, and firemen, if we are gonna play this game.
Up is overusing McWhorter. I realize you probably want some "centrist" balance on the panels, but McWhorter has nothing interesting to say.
"One man's opinion" is often just that.
Very good show today Chris. I tried to tweet about this but just not enough space to make a point there.
I understand that there is no right to free public primary education in our federal constitution. However, each state has a provision or article in its constitution providing a guarantee for its citizens to provide free public primary education, usually K-12. Subsequently, every state needs federal funding to help run their schools and therefore they are required to follow federal legislation regarding rights and freedoms afforded all American citizens. So why then is there such disparity among public schools? There should not be rich schools and poor schools, only American schools. I think all American public schools should be equal and that means the poor districts should be lifted up. There are of course special issues that poor schools deal with and your panel brought up many of these. If a wealthy district can afford a pool or a polo team, then a poor district should have funds to deal with socioeconomic issues. I think the whole argument of charter schools and vouchers is just preposterous and so unjust. Charter schools as well as voucher programs take away from public schools, not only financially but socially and morally. They are just a modern way to segregate a community. Vouchers, absolutely baffle me; a lottery for our children’s education. Would a private/religious school want a poor probably non-Christian, possibly of color student holding back their perfect Arian utopia? This was the feeling that I got reading over a list of pros and cons that were listed when I searched for information in this program. Too socialistic? I grew up poor and although I could not go to college, many in my graduating class flunked out or nearly flunked out their first year at college as they were all ill-prepared for college by our class D school. I feel that I deserved a better education and I also believe I should have been able to go to college but the American dream is just a fallacy for far too many us. That is the greatest American myth.
I think you raise some valid, provocative questions, that, unfortunately, are seldom included in the discussion.
Unfortunately, you've posted them to the blog for the show that followed the one that centered on Education. That show was Saturday, 26 May 2012.
You might get more of a response if you re-post your comment on Saturday's blog.
"However, each state has a provision or article in its constitution providing a guarantee for its citizens to provide free public primary education, usually K-12. Subsequently, every state needs federal funding to help run their schools and therefore they are required to follow federal legislation regarding rights and freedoms afforded all American citizens." Can't agree with this logic. Just because the state makes it a requirement does not mean the Feds must fund it. Even so we have a problem everyone can agree with I think. We spend way more money than other countries and get inferior results. I am not convinced that property taxes should not be sufficient.
Let's just do away with public education, its not like its necessary. Privatize all the schools and let the market rule, the unfettered market has done a wonderful job of redistributing income upward, perhaps it can do the same for education.
Amy, I don't know if you have any children or not but I do. The most important thing in my children's activities is school. My wife and I attend all the school functions and our kids do homework every night. I will tell you this-throwing money at schools with failing students is not the answer. Google up the Kansas City schools in the 1980's. They were given a blank check and built some of the most fantastic schools in America. But at the end of the day it didn't help. The grades stayed low and now they have lost accreditation in the state of Missouri. The parent or parents must be involved or the child has no chance. All the money in the world won't help these kids without support at home.
Amy - We don't need more government mandates, we need more individual Americans raising the bar, serving the country's best interests by serving its people and making it happen. Charter schools are doing that. Government needs to get out of the way, stop stealing our money and running our lives.
We need to respect our vets on this holiday. My dad is former USA, My Grandfather is former Seabee. My other Grandather is former Us Armt Air Corps. My uncle is former Navy.
While I have never served in uniform, I have worked in Bosnia, Kososvo, Iraq, and Nigeria.
This weekend is a chance to remember those that have, and the friends, colleagues and comrades they have lost.
May Peace be upon them.
Regards, and salute!
every day. Many WWII Korean Vets in nursing homes, assisted living facilities at their own homes that could use our attention. You can learn a great deal if you approach with an open mind and ears. Many of these gentleman are lonely
The soldier's home, to learn to live without
The constant fear and noise of battle's din.
He yearns to see what he has dreamt about
Yet his toughest battle's to be fought within.
To change from war to peace, the man must deal
With dangers other people cannot know.
The invisible wounds of war are slow to heal;
The stress of nerves on edge can lay him low.
Seeing friends who die can be a burden;
Survivor's guilt can make a warrior feel,
Though friends are gone, he's the one who's hurtin',
And causing pain's the only way to deal.
Killing others worries at the heart;
Feeling at home can help the healing start.
I am shocked that someone as evidently educated as Liliana Segura be so ignorant. I'll compare my liberal/progressive cred to that child any day, but even with my anti-war history, going back to 1968, I know one doesn't need to discuss the "morality" of a war, in order to honor the service of those who have served with honor. How disrespectful and insensitive to have made such repugnant comments on this weekend of all. She owes an apology to American servicemen and especially Iraqi War veterans.
I am so in agreement with hnelim.
I am appalled by people who blame servicemembers for the the faults of the politicos that THEY elected.
Go vote.
My remarks for Memorial Day are below....this will be read at the monument in College Park, MD tomorrow as we raise and lower the flag.
My Memorial
In so many poems, so many books
The deeds of those who served are recorded.
Perhaps we have learned to see
That politics alone will not solve
The problems of the world, un-sorted.
I pray for the ones who gave their lives
I pray for the ones who lost them.
We owe our debt to those who serve,
And we must pay it back someday.
But know they’ll come home to stay.
You can visit the forests of Flanders,
Or the hills of South Vietnam.
But ‘til you see the blood
Of your brother on the road
You really won’t ever understand.
Or the peacekeepers, caught in madmen’s rage
Sent out as soldiers, strong and true
Protecting the innocent, defending the meek.
Watching them marched to camps.
The Holocaust of our age.
Damage doesn’t end with the bullet.
Damage won't die with the dead.
Anyone who has seen it,
Carries it all in his head.
May the fallen, and the crest-fallen all know:
We remember, we remember.
A good fight is not ordered by presidents,
But a good fight is fought by good men,
Who give all to the mission assigned,
May they rest in peace and know:
We remember, we remember,
Though we couldn’t be with you that day.
We remember, we remember,
And for your poor souls we still pray.
I'm not sure which show you were watching.
I thought her comments were respectful and well thought out, and I wore the uniform for 20 years.
I thought she was spot on. Granted Vietnam Vets were often treated horribly for the blood sucking and irresponsible warmongering leaders who sent them and kept them in Vietnam for twisted reasons. But this "support the troops no matter what" went way over board also. While 18 etc year olds often join the military to access college, a job, family or have been led to believe that they are "fighting for our freedoms" Individuals also have a responsibility based on how soldiers lives have been misused in the past and more recently to try to dig for close to the facts. But the larger responsibility sits in the laps of those who manipulated intelligence and sent them off to unnecessary and immoral wars
Bring back the draft, if it does nothing more than get a generation thinking of something bigger than themselves, it will be worth it. The larger responsibility for the wars of choice, the ignoring of the suffering and the discarding of vets is with the whole population. We all allowed these wars of choice to start and to continue, we all went about our daily lives not even thinking about a country involved in two wars because we didn't have to. We allowed a tiny part of our countrymen to bear all the burden and we encouraged an even smaller part of our elite to make billions of dollars on the pain and suffering of others. We are a nation of hypocrites that has lost its sense of a national community because of our insistence that getting rich is more important than anything else.
Yes! Bring back the draft immediately!
I don't have a specific retort to Amy Gilbert's blogathon. Some of her ideas are good. However, I am not sure that these kinds of messages add to the social dialogue.
Complaints about your access to education are not helpful.
I was raised by an army lieutenant (in the 70's), and I got a fine education, earned a scholarship, and graduated with honors. I don't see how Ms. Gilbert can fault the system for her problems.
Talk about the real issues.....#1 Parents' involvement in the school community. #2 Good pay for good teachers (not layabouts that just read from the curriculum guide, but who actually develop lessons that are exciting and engaging), #3 sports, music, and/or art as a required part of the curriculum = Well rounded kids!
Please discuss on air.
No paragraph breaks
Scant punctuation
Poor grammar
Rick,
If I'm reading you correctly, you're rebuttal is "The system worked for me, therefore anyone who feels that it didn't "serve them well" is positing an "invalid" position?
You mention that you were "raised by an Army Lieutenant (both of which should be capitalized, btw.). Does that mean you were "educated" at an "on post" School?
I ask because one of the (often overlooked) realities of our National Education system, is that Schools on Military Installations (about as close to a "Federal" Education system as we have in this Country) are consistently ranked as "Superior" to Public Schools in the surrounding communities. The Federal Government often provides more resources and more support to those Schools than what is provided from the State and Local Departments of Education and School Boards.
It's "apples and oranges".
I think one of the reasons we (well some of us) have a difficulty using terms such as "hero" for any war is that we don't use this term generally for many of the other heroes of our lives and our history. Women have the vote because of the very real heroes (sheroes?) who were the suffragettes. Blacks have full citizenship because of the very real heroes who were the civil rights protesters. Workers have rights because of the fights in which quite a few suffered and even died. The fights aren't over, and they are not all on a battlefield. I don't begrudge the term "hero" for one who sacrifices, suffers, or dies for others, but I can't limit it to certain "professions of heroism".
My husband and I both have a long lineage of relatives in the military, and my husband and his brothers served as well. During WWII my father enlisted when he was 14 years old, it was fairly easy to change your birth certificate back then, some enlist to escape civilian life and some enlist specifically to serve their country, but whatever the reason they choose to serve, they stepped up to the plate and took their turn to protect the freedoms we enjoy as a country. However, our men and women go overseas to fight, when in these times we are actually in a battle right here in our own country against those who would love to strip us of our freedoms, by leeching the money from this country and funneling it to the top 1%. It seems to me, in todays times, our values are turned upside down and backward. My question is, besides filling the coffers of the private contractors, why are our men and women overseas fighting when we are in a real battle right here in this country for the very freedom they are overseas trying to protect for us.
Most of the time I agree with everything Chris and Rachel say. But having parades for our veterans of the Iraq War seems to me to be misguided. The Germans had parades for their returning veterans in WW1 and told them that they did not lose. Iraq is sort of the same. I'm sure the Confederacy had parades for the few who survived that conflict.
If you don't win the war you should not celebrate. We won Grenada and Panama and veterans of those wars can stand proud.
Tell you what, why don't you grab an M-16, jump on a airplane to the middle east, and go find the $hit.
Go sleep in a hole in the ground, eat cold food out of plastic bags & tin cans.
Rachel is the one who has been pushing for parades..not Chris. She might want to think about spending as much time pushing for those who lied about WMD's being held accountable. Imagine
Personally I don't give a damn about putting the liars in jail, I'd much prefer to work on healing the victims of these wars the American people sent someone elses sons and daughters to. Argue about the morality of a parade all you want, but the reality is that every American has responsibility not just to our veterans, but to all those Iraqis and Afghans we killed and maimed. Even those of us who opposed both wars from the beginning are complicit in the misery committed in our name have caused to our sons and daughters, and to people we have tried to bomb into submission. We could have done more, we should have done more, but without a draft, no one we knew was going in harms way.
Would have loved to see the look on everyone's face in the studio when that p cat crawled out this morning. Anyway, as a veteran, I just wanted to comment on the post above and remind Joyce that all returning veterans should be able to stand proud regardless of popular opinion or whether or not we "won."
You should know the Up with chris hayes show is a total waste of 120 minutes...
Dude has on cuff links and no Tie....... He attempts to act like he knows what the poor are going through with his $100.00 white dress shirt on.
And that Fake laugh....
Apparently you've got plenty of time to "waste", and don't really mind "wasting it".
Since the very first show, I don't think you've failed to comment on any episode.
Of course, it's usually the same old "ad hominem" attacks that are the mainstay of "conservative opinion" these days, but you're here, week in and week out.
It's almost pitiful.
Hear! Hear! Stupidita is a troll. I don't think he even watches the whole show. It would probably cause him to explode.
You made your snarky comment for the day, not very funny, but I assume you got your jollies off stupidita, trolling is a very poor substitute for real sex.
trolling is a very poor substitute for real sex.
What on earth dose that mean?
"What on earth dose that mean?"
It means you get your jollies from being a jerk online. Trolling, which is being deliberately offensive and what you do, is a childish plea for negative attention. You want people to hate you because that validates your own self image. After all, we already know that you think you are stupid. You choose that name for yourself, no one forced you.
You never say anything worth paying attention to Stupid (that's your name). My guess is that you have NOTHING to contribute because you are intellectually unable to. You don't even try to argue for the conservative side. People here would probably treat you with some respect if you dropped the name calling and did that. But then.... you don't want that. You don't want people to respect you because you don't even respect yourself.
I can't think of a more pathetic life than that.
I just saw your segment with Barry Scheck of the Innocence Project, and frankly - the segment just came off as a handful of whiny, bleeding heart liberals patting each other on the back. (Not that I'm surprised given the line-up of MSNBC shows/hosts *rolling eyes here*). Heck, I almost spit my coffee all over my computer with laughter when Liliana Secura referenced Troy Davis and Todd Willingham. At any rate, I'm afraid that having spent the time to watch that segment is indeed time that I'll not get reimbursed for.
How pathetic.
Yea, the liberals never talk about the criminals that get off scott free!!
They didn't call him "Teflon Don" because it sounded cool!!!
Two compassionate conservatives, white males in their late teens or early 20's who think they are so cool by trolling a blog and typing nonsense. When you think that 21 is reality show, I suppose everyone except the two of you are criminals. What is it like to be so afraid of other Americans that you have to prioritize who it is you hate the most today?
Good show again as always Chris and staff.
Chris, /UwCH Producers Given the historic accomplishments of #SpaceX covering Space Policy history, theory and its innovation implications is ripe! Commercial space aspirational opportunities = new rock and roll narrative, innovation Come to Space Frontier Foundation at NASA Ames in July . RTJeff_Foust "Space isn't something America does because it's already exceptional; it's what we do to make ourselves exceptional." "White House's 2010 NASA proposal had a lot of thoughtful substance, but never connected the dots to explain what it all meant. -James Muncy #ISDC
The Nation Magazine, what a joke, who reads that bird cage liner anyway?
Should be called The Socialism/Communism Monthly.
The point is; the people who have been exonerated from death row were exonerated because THE SYSTEM DOES work, albeit slow and cumbersome. THAT's the problem with capital punishment - it takes too long to actually execute the offender. All one has to do is to look at the very nature of some of the appeals that are offered as challenges. Its almost comedic if not for the seriousness of the circumstances. The appeals process needs to be stream lined. Period. Texas does it right. The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals and the TCA do it right. Unfortunately here in North Carolina, the thug hugging liberals have screwed everything up and NOW we've got death row inmates writing letters to the jurisdiction where he was convicted taunting the community by saying that he lives a life of leisure with color tv, 3 square meals, and all the time he wants to read and take naps...
We parents often tell our children that there are no such things as monsters. Well guess what. WRONG.. There ARE such things as monsters, and they reside on death row. Their execution should be our priority. Not a deterrant? No executed offender has EVER reoffended. Period.
God forbid, you should ever be an innocent man, framed by an overzealous prosecutor for a notch on his belt, waiting on Death Row...
Oh, and you forgot O.J. Simpson, and Casey Anthony...
Best show on MSNBC and keeps getting even better. Real conversations that go deep. Chris your opening on our Vets, unncecessary and necessary wars, those that are killed, maimed etc on both sides was remarkable and moving. So moving. Really appreciate that you stretch the American public's capacity to consider what it has and continue to be for the people in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan etc. Cried cried and cried.
Then when Mary Kirkland was on describing her sons suicide I was beside myself with sadness just the way I was before the invasion of Iraq knowing that young men and womens sense of honor or need to join the military was being misused by our leaders once again. So many of us (many anti Vietnam folks etc) marched, protested, petitioned our Reps, wrote letters, phone calls, emails some of us were even arrested before the invasion. Millions of us across the nation tried to stop that invasion and the MSM was largely misssing in action. A total myth that people did not work their asses off to try to stop that invasion. The MSM was mostly MIA. And have been basically ever since. Not showing the American people the pictures of the dead, injured, displaced in Iraq.
Mary Kirkland and her son's sad story embody the disconnect. I could feel the numbness the shock the despair of that war based on a "pack of lies" during her pauses. Her descriptions were succinct, heart felt and oh so moving. Thank you Mary for telling the truth. The majority of Americans do not want to hear the truth about that unnecessary war.... but thank you for doing so.
The discussion about the language used to describe that war and its victims was warrented. "Heroes"etc. I am also how the military our leaders etc use the term 'they fought to protect our freedoms" Which we all know is a bunch of hooey. They were sent to Iraq based on a "pack of lies" That is why we are seeing so much suicide..many soldiers who decide to access the facts know.
One thing that was avoided during the discussion is the why we invaded. The unwillingness of the MSM, so called investigative reporters, our Reps and the majority of american people to demand that we witness accountability. That those who lied this nation into an invasion of a sovereign nation who had not been part of the attack on 9/11 has been pounded back into a far worse environment than before the invasion of Iraq. Get into the why and how and lack of accountability having to do with Iraq.
Bill Moyers did an incredible interview with two people who have dug into the why, the torture and lack of accountability
Having worked with active duty US Marines and Sailors at US Marine Corp Base at Camp Lejeune, NC, I can speak to the seriousness of mental health issues (specifically, PTSD & Major Depressive Disorder) and military suicides of OIF/OEF vets. I provided specialized therapy to active duty service members with chronic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Traumatic Brain Injuries, and high risk mental health issues. As a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT), I provided therapy to individuals, couples, families, and facilitated group therapy at a clinic on base. I had the opportunity to build therapeutic relationships with service members and hear not only war stories that they usually keep from their own spouses or families (due to their fear that their loved ones will view them negatively) but I also heard about their moral injuries that result from traumatic events and their difficulties making sense of what they did or were not able to accomplish on deployments. I also heard about their detachment from civilian culture and recognized that most Americans are not aware of what they endure everyday in war and as a vet in their own country. I think a lot of service members with PTSD internalize the following thoughts: that they somehow let down their military buddies (especially ones who died); they do not measure up as the heroic figure portrayed on military billboards and advertisements or measure up to the expectations of their chain of commands; they were not able to accomplish "the mission"; and/or they have difficulty finding answers to existential questions about the cause of war and their piece in it and often question who is "the enemy." They are also burdened with the sense of feeling inadequate as they are unable to meet personal expectations as well as expectations in their marriages, families, and society. I also think the "business" of addressing mental health is another contributing factor to the helplessness and hopelessness that our vets experience. There is more emphasis on screenings and assessments than actual time spent with service members in military clinics and in the VA. There is the mentality of "bring them in and move them out" as an assembly line which is a disservice to our vets. Service members walk away from those screenings feeling pushed aside because there is a lack of human connection or relationship as the screener asks them about their experience and share some of the most intimate details of their experience in war and their health with a stranger. In a VA clinic, I learned that time spent for a first time appointment with a psychiatrist is around 30 mins. which includes the psychiatrist's documentation and ordering of meds. A follow-up visit to manage medications lasts 15 mins. and for that patient to be scheduled once a month, that is clearly not enough time to develop a good relationship for that vet to feel comfortable enough to share what is really going on with him or her. Screenings are necessary to identify medical and mental health needs but the way they are done should be restructured. There is an unsurmountable pressure on clinicians now at Camp Lejeune to see numbers of active duty service members with chronic PTSD and mental health issues which leads to a burnout and high turnover of clinicians. To provide effective therapy that really counts and that may prevent suicides, adequate time must be allowed. Sticking with protocol therapy in a time frame does not work because the relationship, the human element of touching one's heart and mind, is not given a chance to develop. From my experience, when that relationship is built, service members are able to share and allow you to get a glimpse of what their world is like in their boots. My thoughts go out to all those who have served and those who continue to serve not just on Memorial Day but everyday of my life. Thank you Chris for covering our vets on your show this morning. Respectfully, Lindsay Henson in Greenville, NC
Lindsay,
Thank you for your well stated, well thought out comment. As a former Service Member, current Psychology Major, and former Husband of a woman who had (has) her own Mental Health issues (which I tried to help her address, both via the Military Mental Health care system, and Private/Public facilities) I have no doubt that the description you provide is accurate.
The "system", on the whole, is not working. This speaks to the larger problems we see in our Healthcare system in its entirety. There is, without doubt, something wrong when we apply a "production line" mentality, to something as personal and individual as a person's HEALTH and Well being. There is so much more that we could (and indeed should) be doing to provide necessary services across the board. In Mental Health, it has been made clear to me (through multiple discussions with my Professors) that we need far more research to be done in order to develop "treatments that work" with far more consistency. In general Medical treatment (IMHO) we have a significant body of proven treatment, but either it isn't being disseminated properly, or it isn't changing our methodology. How many times have we heard "treat the whole person" only to see the "take two of these and call me if there's a problem" approach implemented?
When I first entered my formal education I wanted to do "Clinical work", but, in all honesty, I couldn't imagine doing what you are doing. At time's it must seem like "pin the tail", blindfold and all. I thank you for the effort you give to it, and I hope that one day, I'll be able to give you a "better tool set" to work with.
Our Vets
Have spent the last four and a half years in different assisted living and nursing home facilities with my WWII father who took a bad fall. Over this time I have had the great honor of speaking with and hearing the stories of many WWII and Korean war Veterans who are now spending their last years in some of these facilities. There are thousands of them in these facilities who are lonely have few( many who seldom visit) to no family members. They need folks to talk with about their lives or just about the weather. If you are looking for a way to honor our Vets you could start visiting these facilities in your area. Not just on Memorial day but all year. I promise you will be surprised how much you learn and grow besides giving these older Vets the attention and honor they so deserve.
Also during this time I have had to take my WWII father out to the VA in Dayton Ohio for health care reasons. Now the situation at this VA and I know VA's across the country is you will interact with Iraq and Afghanistan War Vets missing limbs and some of them parts of their minds. Many sad and moving stories. You can volunteer at the VA's near you. They need you and all Americans need to hear their stories.
On the Memorial Day segment, the general public's strong but superficial support of the military, contrasted with their remoteness or indifference to the "cause" called to mind a scene from the film, History Boys. The young instructor, trying to open the minds of his aspiring Oxford students, gathers them at a campus war memorial. He tells them, that in 1914 Germany really didn't want war and that it was Britain which was the more bellicose. Asked why this isn't generally acknowledged, he says.. the dead, the body count. We don't like to admit that it was partly our fault. It's not lest we forget, but lest we remember. There is no better way of forgetting something than commemorating it; thus the many memorials and the Cenotaph.
Chris, A small point of protocol, a Lt. Colonel is addressed as Colonel, just as a Lt. General is addressed as General.
Great show and I watch both S & S every week
great points...what did the U.S. military and U.S. officials learn from Vietnam? Get rid of the draft, don't show the American people pictures of what has and is going on, and don't count their(Iraq) dead, those killed by drones, and don't show pictures of our injured and dead. The American people seem more than happy to not know.
23.1
Kathleen,
I don't really agree that the U.S. Military learned those lessons. They are far more a product of our elected leaders than our Military ones.
Chris, why do you insist having Dougherty, a closet-homosexual speaking on the behalf of Catholics regarding Anti-Gay issues? It's like the GOP getting Clarence Thomas speaking about African-American's causes...he is in complete denial, of course until the OTHER SIDE WANTS TO USE IT AGAINST HIM. Then Dougherty will have a different tone about the Catholic religion when they thrown him under the bus....at his coming out party!