In case you missed it, here's the chart we aired on Up w/ Chris Hayes today detailing Rep. Paul Ryan's major votes and their impact on the deficit.
Ryan, who was chosen today as Mitt Romney's running mate, is regarded as a visionary among grassroots conservatives, and one of the intellectual leaders of the conservative movement. But there is much in Ryan's record that undercuts his image as a reformer and deficit-cutter, including his votes on the Bush tax cuts, Iraq War, Wall Street bailout and Medicare Part D, among others:
Major votes and their impact on the deficit by Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, Mitt Romney's new running mate.
Sal Gentile is segment and digital producer for Up w/ Chris Hayes. Follow him on Twitter at @salgentile.
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Great starting point. Traditionally the GOP point of view has been some debt is good, it amounts to spending someone else's money. The issue that the Ryan budget doesn't intend to pay the deficit off for 28 years demonstrates further that we're not too serious about the deficit. So, let's push through the non-issue of paying off loans, to the issue of getting the trillions of corporate stored cash back into business and off the Cayman shores.
Please hurry and upload the rest of this morning's discussion on Paul Ryan! So far msnbc.com only has one clip.
Great show this morning! Glad to see everyone back and smart and engaging as ever. If I can't have Nathan Adrian swimming on my TV I'm happy to have Chris, Melissa, and Rachel (BONUS!).
The Ryan pick means Romney is no longer in charge of his campaign. Right-wing movement politics has grabbed the tiller from I-want-to-be-president Romney. The right has conceded the election to Obama in return for giving its movement a well lit stage. Obama must ignore Ryan. Attacks on Ryan, whom no one knows, would backfire because he's cute. Focus only on Romney. Let Biden take care of Ryan in the debate.
Sad but true. Romney has again morphed into something else (a right wing tea bagger) to be elected. We voted for him in Mass. because it's not unusual for us to pick a MODERATE republican governor to keep the spendthrift democrats in check. This just shows that no one really knows Romney's real thoughts or opinions.
And Bill, your're right, Biden can handle this punk. And he's not cute - his smug, self satisfied smirk is annoying.
Bill, name the last GOP President or nominee that was in charge. Really, you have to go back to Nixon. The candidate sells a product- He sells himself as the guy that can deliver in an election, but as far as the plutocrats are concerned, the candidate is simply vehicle to get their faction into power. Let simpletons like Bush think what they like- the handlers are in charge: Campaign pros in the election, then when in office- policy advisors captured by industry.
So where are the campaign pros that know that Ryan is the kiss death in 2012?
No smart guy wants their name associated with a disaster, so I am expecting the Romney campaign to produce more not less unforced errors as we get closer to November. If I'm wrong, you'll know by looking at the names in the campaign team after the GOP convention.
Unlike rodents, political operatives can smell a sinking ship long before it sails into waters infested with Axelrod U-boats. Of course it doesn't take an especially evolved life form to notice the gaping holes that have already been blasted out of Romney's ship. The Teavangelicals are going to need a miracle to make the crossing, and who knows, although the probabilities are strongly against it, there is a measurable chance they could still win.
My bet is that Ryan understands this too will play this as best he can so that he is perceived as next in line for 2016. Ryan has a nose, and understands that if this is perceived as a referendum on his ideas, that he has no future. I am going to be looking for him making left handed comments- eg- in response to a far right Fox host, if he doesn't believe the Romney position is sufficiently "pure"- I expect Ryan to give left handed responses- that he is a team player and that we have to do everything we can to get Obama out of power... etc etc. That way, he keeps the stench of Romney death off of him, and has plausible deniability. He can say in 2015- "Yeah, in the campaign policy meetings, I was fighting for Tea party positions all along, but Romney's guys would just nod their heads and ignore me- I realized that they had no intention of adhering to our agenda... but by then it was too late and I had to do what I could to maximize the chances of getting the white house out of the hands of Obama etc etc."
I wish I were as sanguine about Ryan being the 2012 "kiss of death." I feel like the Randians are knocking on the door and, strangely (considering her explicit atheism), trying to sell me a Bible and replicas of Joseph Smith's revelatory golden plates. But they've at least shown their face in putting Ryan on the ticket. His policy and budget proposals aren't just products, the window dressing and lip service of election year politics. I take his vision to be a sincere one, one that sharpens the debate between market fundamentalism and a procedural republic and the formative social democracy of the modern welfare state. Wish I knew more about the Austrian school these guys draw from. Anyway, always find your posts reassuring in one way or another.
Thanks, but to be honest, I am one of those idiots that cheered when the GOP nominated Reagan rather than Bush or Baker. I thought it was another Goldwater lurch to the Bircher lunatic fringe.
Just as then, it would be stupid for anyone to think Obama has this all sewn up. The hyperbole on the right about the magnitude of the consequences of this election is I think warranted. My reasons for thinking so are of course very different, but they also involve supreme court nominations.
Today, I tell myself my opinion is based on observations of the technical competence of the Obama people versus those running Romney's campaign. Axelrod & co. are no doubt wondering why Romney handed them this perfect gift for driving another wedge between the GOP and folks either on Medicare / Social security, or with parents or relatives who know how dependent they are on this system that has Ryan and his ilk since FDR have believed is fundamentally un-American.
Get ready for Chicago to define Ryan is before the GOP does. I have little doubt that when evangelicals discover Ryan's affection for Ayn Rand (reportedly he makes his staff read Atlas Shrugged), and understand the violence of her atheism, that they will have some questions about how sincere Ryan's professed faith is. For that matter, many Christians would be quite surprised about Romney's religious beliefs, and assume incorrectly the differences are similar to the minor sort between Protestant denominations. Hopefully none of the liberal Pacs will be reckless with this messaging- it's pretty tricky to do without having it backfire.... But even if no campaign material touches it- having a Mormon and a someone who idolized a vehement atheist will give evangelicals a lot of excuses not to show up for phone banking or door knocking, or driving folks to the polls.
But maybe it won't matter. With a billion dollars to spend in the swing states, maybe volunteers don't matter anymore. Maybe the GOP will just hire it out.
Agreed. Future Supreme Court nominations represent a large chunk of this election's consequences. Is it Lawrence Lessig who advocates for term limits (18 yrs.) for the 9?
How do Ryan, Cantor and the Randian ilk square the fact of the "greatest generation" (that of shared sacrifice and civic duty) coming of age under such "fundamentally un-American" New Deal politics?
And what could be more "un-American" than touting Atlas Shrugged of all things as a great work of fiction? Shabby literature, shabby philosophy, stunted and adolescent. I guess it's still better than Bachmann's official recommended reading list, but give me Moby Dick, Huck Finn, Look Homeward Angel, All the King's Men, Invisible Man. Give me something that elevates our perpetual adolescence; not something that wallows in it.
Never mind that rant.
Priebus apparently said that Romney is NOT himself ready to be president on 'day one,' but with Ryan by his side, he will be...Unbelievable admission...
Not cute enough. Ha. I think people are more worried about jobs and the economy right now and they know Ryan isn't concerned about that in the least.
Isn't it shabby because we really don't give these subjects much thought outside of the election cycle? Isn't it shabby because the "thinking" we give it inside the election cycle is really not thinking? Look at the all caps and misspelled twitter wars and on the political blogs. Most of it is a food fight- little different than a free for all between avid supporters of rival sports teams. Or another image- like watching two swarms of ants stampeding into each other- ruthlessly ganging up and overwhelming ants of the opposing side. No real communication.
As for the connection with literature- I was an a literature/ art major, so epistemologically I come from a place where I think everything is fiction- though not in a nihilistic way. Our art of life either elevates to excellence, or wallows in tawdry tropes. The best art in is real world. At one point I was recoiling from the world and re-immersing myself in dead materials- the kind that stay the way you made them, and do not decay. But it is a Pymgmalion narcissistic dilemma. The Real world is the medium highest form of art because it applies empirical test to the artist's visions. The ideals must actually work or they crumble. Besides, whether we like it or not, the nature of everything around us is a Theater without walls, and how we act in social constructs, like family, political groups, and business- how we act either expresses artistic vision or banality.
Our choice.
Every minute of every day.
Until some bus runs over us and it is up those left to help make it a little better or a little worse.
So yeah, to return from my pretentions/ meta level. Sure- Ryan quickly locked on to some fiction that constellated his intuition early.
My trouble with all this is that no one will be talking about issues after November 6. Everyone will take a 2 if not 4 year breather. No one will tune in to Maddow, Hayes, MHP, or Lawrence because no one likes to hear constantly about what is bad about the world. They want to go back to making their own personal lives less unpleasant. Turning on the news or competing in all caps twitter or blog fests does not add to pleasantness.
So my deal now is to look at what people are using constantly and tie that more closely to issues or politics. My thought is that I could do this in a massive multiperson environment- a "game" that had real world tie ins to discussions like on here or other political sites.
welcome back Chris, we missed you... Just watched the roll-out, wow, I rarely pay close attention to these guys and I was just reminded why, empty suits speaking in empty platitudes. It seems they believe, if you just say 'leader' enough people will believe you. ...and when did they pick up on the term 'middle-class'? I seem to recall from the endless GOP debates the word was never spoke. I think I, we, should be a-scared of the threat these guys pose, but I just can't take them seriously....
Is it possible to identify and interview the African American couple in the back row behind the podium? I'm curious because they seem so distracted and frankly, out of place in what seems to be a totally "white" audience. Could they have been recruited to stand there?? Fritz
fritz that was my thought too also the crowd was pretty dead
by bring ryan in to the mix today romny hopes that he'll distract us enough that we'll stop asking a bout his tax records no chance we the people will not play his dont look behind the curtin games
It is going to be very hard to take a witless presidential candidate and a rabid anti-poor anti-middleclass anti-senior vice presidential candidate seriously.
I'm just...just...ROFLMAO
You might like to tell your Rockefeller Center neighbors at SNL that Zach Woods (aka Gabe on the American version of "The Office") looks a lot like Rep. Paul Ryan.
Chris Hayes, We love your show! Saw your coverage this am of Romney/Ryan. Couldn't help notice the total lack of racial/ethnic diversity in the crowd! Only one African American couple behind the candidate (and the woman soon disappeared!). As a European American who rejoices in the diversty of our country, I am disturbed, by the narrow representation among Romney fans of people of color. What's UP with that?
I'm an independent voter and I was hoping to vote Republican this year but the Repubs just don't get it. They just lost the election. It's Palin all over again. Bill Barnhart's comments above nailed it. Instead of picking a populist figure that would attract independents, they appeased the far right. Idiots.
Except, I don't see Biden doing very well against Ryan in any debates. Biden is a fool and a crook.
Paul Ryan's Congressional fiscal voting record Looks Delicious! VP Biden is Lickin his Chops. (MINDofDEMUS.com)
There are many Democrats with the same record. Republicans didn't get us here without help from the Dems.
Fair enough but this is not about other Democrats or Republicans. It is about the Republican Party trying to pass this guy off as some fiscal deficit hawk when his record thoroughly repudiates their asinine assessment. I have paid a lot into these so called entitlements over the years and the audacity of this poser to decide who gets hammered for his own feckless voting proclivities makes we want to both regurgitate and head for the nearest OFA headquarters. I gave my first donations yesterday and I am sure that Romney's choice for "President" will galvanize Democrats. If they were disenchanted with Obama before, they won't be any longer.
Ryan is now the ideological soul of the wooden cipher that is Mitt Romney. Together, their Secret Service codenames can be binary: The Zero and The One. This ticket represents the twin towers of Most-Discredited Thinkers: Ayn Rand and Joseph Smith. In fact, a uniquely American ticket. We get Rand's market fundamentalism with Ryan (minus her critically necessary, but currently unpopular atheism), and the bonus of Joseph Smith's homegrown cult of illiteracy and charlatanism (featuring Native Americans in the role of wandering Jews) with Romney. For all of you weirdo Protestants and evangelicals that might vote for this GOP ticket, take the time to examine what Romney believes as a Mormon. Read Adam Gopnik's short piece on Mormonism in the current New Yorker.
I would have preferred a proper 2-hour Up filled with thoughtful discussion. Hopefully you won't let these fools interrupt your good work every time they feel like they have something important to stand on, like a warship.
Thought it would be Portman. I guess too many Bush administration strings and reminders
Must reads Chris and team. These websites should be a regular visit for you folks. Unless you are going to stay stuck reading the warmongering Thomas Friedmans and Krauthammers of the world. Reach out, get out of your box and get the facts
Two Ways Mitt Romney Really Will Kill lots of People
Posted on 08/10/2012 by Juan (Professor Juan Cole is one of those folks that the Bush administration had the F.B.I. investigate because he stood against the invasion of Iraq and said so. Unlike the lap dog MSM
Iran Deserves “Respect” for its Efforts to Foster a Political Settlement in Syria
Posted on August 10th, 2012 under general with 21 replies. Hillary Mann Leverett and Flynt Leverett (former CIA middle east analyst who quit the Bush administration just before the invasion because he disagreed) are two more brilliant individuals you Hardball folks should be reading every day. If you dare to read analyst who Comcast your owners likely will not allow you to have on your programs. That is why more and more of us go to AlJazeera, Democracy Now, Real News, McClatchy to get the real news.
http://www.raceforiran.com/
Mondoweiss should be another daily read for you folks. Phillip Weiss has just gotten involved with the decades old Palestinian truth and justice movement but when Phillip gets involved he comes in with a bang. Very effective. His last trip to Israel and the illegally occupied territories did not stir up confidence in Phil
Trapped
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/08/trapped.html
http://www.juancole.com/2012/08/two-ways-mitt-romney-really-will-kill-lots-of-people.html
Dr. Marcy Wheeler was very involved with the Plame outing and knowing every detail. At the Libby trial I came up to you Chris and let you know you should get out of your New York Bloody Times, Washington Post etc box. Read Marcy (she live blogged that trial and was given permission to operate out of the national press room. You should have her on your program. She is brilliant. She could shake you up Chris with facts about torture, wiretapping, Abu Gharib etc.
Dick Durbin: The Targeted Killing Memo Is Like the Torture and Illegal Wiretap Memos
By: emptywheel Friday August 10, 2012 5:29 pm
http://www.emptywheel.net/
Pinocchio and Geppetto are well matched:
Would be awesome to get another nun or maybe someone from Georgetown U. on the panel to discuss the Ryan nomination.
Chris...........................................slow down!!!! Breathe......
I was a little irked that Avick Roy was able to get away with so many right wing talking points. The most annoying example would be "Most Americans don't wan't to punish success." I think it is very important to address this party that runs solely on "message" who literally basterdizes the English language to make their points,that the thing which they are calling success and the advantages that they seek for "the successful" is really defined as privilege. Successful people are generally considered to be able to carry their own weight and do not shirk personal responsibility. When republicans end important debates by saying things like "Why do you want to punish success?" We must actually have a response. Avoiding taxation does not equate to personal responsibility and success should not require one to have advantages that others are not afforded. Can you imagine if the Olympics gave certain countries a head start so that they may be winners or added weights around the ankles of certain runners/swimmers and not others? How difficult would this adversity be to overcome? It would not be an event worth watching.
You drink from the Obama Koolaid. If someone is successful, they didn't do it. someone else did. The vast majority of millionaires in this country are self made. they did not inherit it. And so what if they did. someone in their family made it and they should be able to keep it. Most business owners that I know spend countless hours at work, are there when workers call in sick, need off or are on vacation, don't have time for a vacation, when things are tight , in order to pay the employees, they take less money or no money and try to get by to make the business work. If they manage to make a go at the business work, and make some money, they are demonized. I say power to them and congrats. They deserve it. And oh, by the way, They also took a huge monetary risk by borrowing money to start the business and should reap the rewards. These media meatheads that criticize the wealthy are hired and paid well by some of the most wealthy businesses around. I for one do not begrudge any wealthy person what they have EARNED. Power to them. Keep building, producing, inventing, creating, hiring, and donating to make America the country that it has been. I for one don't want the dems to tear that system down. And as to the Olypics comment. Obama has been picking winners and losers in the business world since he came into office, and you had to have donated to his campaign to be a winner.
I think it is safe to say that "Most Americans do not see selfishness as a virtue." People like Romney understand and except that or he would not hide what he does and ask people not to "talk about it except in quiet rooms." That is not success that is privelege. We have a segment of our society who extracts and must feed off of the rest of us to be able to do so, but it is somehow taboo to speak of it. We are envious if we question their methods or motives. Messages will never solve any of our real problems. They simply makes things sound differently, sometimes more tolerable to certain people.
This creep is Palin in a suit. Joe on Morning Joe said that Ryan is "much more qualified than Obama to be president." when one of his guests questioned Ryan`s experience.
He said "even after 4 years Obama does not understand Washington"
What a laugh!! Palin was also "more qualified to be president." Ryan is not "smart". He is a dunce, who attended a nondescript university, but who tries to convince equally stupid people that the nonsense he spouts makes sense!!!
White Floridian, a senior who will vote Obama 2012
Unbelievable, isn't it? Heal thyself! Stop watching Scarborough and instead find Current TV to watch the Stephanie Miller Show every morning from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. MDT. Truth AND Laughter!
Yet even looking at this data I know too many repugs and "Independents" who see this will totally dismiss this as propaganda of the "liberal media." Facts are wasted on the repugs. and rght-leaning "independents." Actually having a fact-checking media, renaming Fox News to Fox Nuts, AND recinding of Citizens United would turn our country around to the right direction.
If they don't agree with your view it is a lie. I see. That is what's wrong with America, It is always my way or the highway. The other party NEVER has a good idea.
I am convinced that if Romney is elected he will do what every other Republican has done in a recession after taking office--increase employment dramatically. The Republican'ts have been forcing the administration to limit public employment to ruin the unemployment figures. The increase will come quickly and dramatically, and will be a sop to the general public showing that "Republicans can increase job growth." Of course this is at the expense of their precious budget, but by that time the Tea Party types will have been snookered into supporting them and it will be too late for them. It is this "Santa Claus" strategy that Chris and others have educated us to anticipate that is at the basis for their machinations. However this shows how hollow and cynical their economic policies are. They have nothing to do with the well being of the country, and everything to do with maintaining a grip on power for their own selfish gain, further exploiting the rest of us.
The only Republican to increase employment as you describe going back to Eisenhower was Reagan after the first several years of unemployment going up to 9.7 and 9.6, the highest since post- Great Depression years.
Above, I meant "increase PUBLIC employment dramatically." This is the one lever the president has on unemployment without Congressional approval. And if there are Republican majorities in the House and Senate, or even close, no one is going to complain. Voters beware! Get these creeps out of office for good.