Before the news broke overnight that Mitt Romney had selected Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin as his running mate, one of the stories we'd planned on covering on Saturday's Up w/ Chris Hayes was the domestic terror attack at a Sikh temple in Southern Wisconsin last Sunday. The tragic shooting left six people dead, and army veteran Wade Michael Page has been identified by law enforcement officials as the shooter. Wade has also been identified as the leader of a neo-Nazi band and an active member in the white supremacist movement.
As part of our discussion, we had planned on talking to Pete Simi, associate professor of criminology at the University of Nebraska at Omaha and co-author of the book "American Swastika: Inside the White Power Movement's Hidden Spaces of Hate." Simi interviewed Page several times from 2001 to 2003 while researching the hate music scene in Southern California. Simi provided several excerpts from his interviews with Page exclusively to Up w/ Chris Hayes, which we wanted to share. With Page dead, we may never know exactly what led him to attack the temple last Sunday. But these quotes may provide some insight into Page’s worldview of racial hatred.
During an interview on August 11, 2001, while discussing the topic of recruiting new neo-Nazi members, Page told Simi, “You can’t hit them over the head. ... If you do that, you just prove that use that approach aren’t helping anything.”
On that same night, while Page and Simi discussed music, Wade told Simi he liked Kiss and Jim Croce: “As long as their (Jews) not explicitly promoting anything that’s totally offensive, I can still appreciate what they’re doing and their talent. I’ll listen to anything for that matter, even hip-hop...” Wade paused, then added, “but it would have to be damned good.”
At an interview at Page’s house on June 1, 2002, while listening to music, Page told to Simi just how “upside down” he thought everything was. He explained, “A faggot drives by in front of your house and you go, ‘hey [expletive] faggot,’ that’s a hate crime, he goes to the cops. It’s a felony, you violated his civil rights. [Expletives] call you a honkey, they’ve got freedom of speech. ... You have not been oppressed like they have been. ... A lot of Jews like to think they’re white but it’s a hate crime if you call them a dirty Jew because they will pull some racial religious [expletive] out of their ass.”
And, during an interview with Simi on June 28, 2002, Page said, “Sometimes a savage beating is necessary, violence plays a big part of the skinhead life … sometimes violence gets out of hand and things happen that shouldn’t happen but at least it teaches people a lesson: the next time they won’t [expletive] with skinheads.”
:: Allison Koch (@allisonlkoch) is a segment producer for Up w/ Chris Hayes ::
Leave a Comment:
Are we supposed to feign surprise when a skinhead commits a horrific act of violence against people who don't look like him?
The worst part of that for me? Simi excises the words '@!$%#ing', '@!$%#s' and '@!$%#' but has no problem repeating the word 'faggot'. Profanity? Not ok. Racial language? Not ok. Homophobic language? Fine with him.
Not fine with me.
Is anyone else unable to access Up w/Chris Hayes online on Sunday August 12th?
Is anyone else unable to access Up w/Chris Hayes online on Sunday August 12th?
Yes. I can't access it. What's up with that?
Superheroes & "Guns" - in venues of talk shows, places of worship, and theater.
This whole thing of gun intrusion into a place of worship took a bizarre twist this Sunday at the church I regularly attend. One of the church elders quoted some old testament passages about the virtues of hunting. Then he puts up a photo of a hunter with a typical phallic pose- the gun butt on upper thigh, hand on the upper stock- (almost a self parody- it struck me as a confesion of the "hunter's" auto erotic practices). At the man's feet is a dead deer.
So at that point my wife and I stand up in view of the elder, who know our views on these matters quite well- and walk out.
But please let's not get self righteous about this. Admit it- you are entertained by the tropes of films like Die Hard. The blockbuster films solve problems with tropes of zero sum vanquishing of the opponent through some technical advantage- a gun, a robot, some exotic James Bond toy.
People are entertained by these triumphal violent fantasies where they escape into a world where they vicariously relish the final and decisive victory over their foes using extreme violence if necessary.
It's fundamentally the same virus of "thought"- the politics differ, the venues differ: movie theater, house of worship, hunting in the woods, the talk show. With less direct appeals to violence, but the exact same ground rules of zero sum interaction- we want to read our favorite blogger decisively shred the opposition, or our favorite MSNBC host shred the idiots on the other side. It's different in severity from what Fox viewers are doing, and but millions of MSNBC viewers are tuning in for similar reasons. I am talking about viewers- certainly, MSNBC hosts are up to something illuminating as opposed to the efforts of FOX hosts to delude. Thankfully, there are shows that eschew this sort of approach that kicks the ratings up. It is the stuff that Moyers and Hayes vigorously exclude from their shows.
They are interested in getting at things that are oftentimes not confirmatory of viewer's preconceptions about particular issues. That's where the real violence to people's points of view take place. Oddly, people turn on news talk shows, not to learn anything new. They go to church precisely as a scheme to insulate themselves from the sins they perpetuate in life every day. People don't want any violence done to their points of view.
But it is a heavy burden to place on the heroic hosts. They must be perpetually the most fascinating person on the planet- always present with the salient quip, always knowledgeable with an interesting take on the issue. A human sponge of content gleaned from myriad sources- so much so they forgot the last time they had an original thought. A world where this year's sensation can be next year's cancelled ex host barely able to get any television air time, or sell their skills to anywhere else.
I doubt this will be the fate of Zakaria, but the pressures on these guys is tough. They must make their appeals based on emotions associated with intuitive exploration rather than the emotional rush from the political combat equivalent of ethnic cleansing.
And sometimes the inspiration just doesn't come, and maybe this show, the secret will be out- just how limited the person behind the on air persona really is.
That's the kind of fear that drove Zakaria to do such violence to himself and his profession. Maybe the network executives will get a little maturity about this and ease up on expecting these guys to be superheroes. Sure many of the viewers expect it, and it becomes good drama.
Over at Mondoweiss we had quite a substantive conversation about homeland security funds that go to organizations under alleged threat. 97% of those funds go go Jewish organizations. Big discussion
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/08/missouri-mosque-burning-imam-says-tragedy-will-not-stop-us.html