On tomorrow's show, we'll examine how President Obama walked the fine line between hope and reality in his convention speech. We'll review the evolution of the Democratic Party's platform from 2004 to 2012, and discuss the Democrats' embrace of the culture wars. Plus, we'll delve into the political significance of Michelle Obama's description of herself as "mom-in-chief" in her convention speech, and the contested political terrain of motherhood.
Joining Chris at 8am ET tomorrow are:
Victoria DeFrancesco Soto, MSNBC contributor, communications director for Latino Decisions and visiting scholar at the University of Texas-Austin.
Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), representing the 8th congressional district of New York. He is currently serving his 10th term in Congress.
Kristin Rowe-Finkbeiner, (@momsrising) executive director and CEO of MomsRising.
Nancy Keenan, (@Nancy_Keenan) President of NARAL Pro-Choice America
John McWhorter, Professor of Linguistics at Columbia University, contributing editor at the New Republic and Daily News columnist.
Stan Greenberg, (@stangreenberg) democratic pollster, co-author of "It's the Middle Class Stupid!" and co-founder of the organization Democracy Corps with James Carville.
Jared Bernstein, (@econjared) MSNBC contributor, senior fellow at the Center for Budget & Policy Priorities, and former Chief Economist & Economic Policy Advisor to Vice President Joe Biden (2009-2011).
Jessica Valenti, (@JessicaValenti) founder of Feministing.com and author of "Why Have Kids?: A New Mom Explores the Truth About Parenting and Happiness."
Joe Weisenthal, (@thestalwart) deputy editor at Business Insider.
:: Blogged by Katherine Guthrie (@kguth1130), production assistant for Up w/ Chris Hayes ::





Nadler is a moron!!! Congress is both the house & the senate!!!
who was it the sign the repeal of glass-steagall???
Who let fannie & freddie back the sub prime loans?
Obama care has already killed 1500 jobs.
Auto rescue??? GM is in the tank, the Volt is a joke.
The tax payers are on the hook for over $20 billion thanks to GM.
We spent over $20 billion a year just on air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We keep an INDUSTRY going for that price and suddenly you are outraged.
The GM deal is backed by equities, the Air Conditioning Bill, went out the flaps in the tent.
I remember seeing somewhere that GM and Chrysler both repaid their rescue funds with interest ahead of time already, therby providing a net profit to the taxpayer and removing them from 'the hook'. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this is an improvement over going to war without paying for it and providing a profit to Blackwater, the Chinese bond holders, etc.?
$$$$$16 trillion debt!!!!!!!!!!
How much more do you need?
If you could spend $1 dollar every second, it would take you over 31,000 years to spend just $1 trillion.
The democrats love to spend money!!!
Clinton is RIGHT ON. Talk to any senior educator. We DO NOT graduate college ready, job ready students. Many jobs today require some specialized training. So YES it is a combination of recession cycle AND jobforce readiness.
Talk to someone at higher levels of edducation administration in the K12 system.
So no students from any state is ready to attend college? This is preposterous. Are you saying that 100% of students aren't prepared? Please tell me the country, anywhere in the world, that even attempts to prepare 100% of their students for college. I'm all in favor of education for everyone, but if we have unrealistic expectations we will be setting ourselves up for failure.
Educator- You are absolutely right that we need more highly trained people. And by the way, thank your vastly under appreciated service to the real economic health of the nation.
The problem is more profound, because if there is a technician or engineer with equivalent education in another country that is asking for 1/10 the US salary, then does the business manager outsource the work, taking the long view that this is better for the US economy?
No, the manager will have his *ss handed to him in his next review, and will be on the unemployment line in short order.
Do we really think that China is not also interested in aggressively training their workforce? Do we really think that their workers cannot be taught the necessary aerospace, genetic, nanotechnology, medical and software engineering skills to answer US labor needs?
Do we really not understand that the revolution in digital communication and swift global transportation of goods has made labor supply a highly fungible commodity, and that commoditization has one effect on prices.
Just ask any laid off middle class worker. This started long ago but the blood is running thick in the streets today. The US consumer/ Worker is selling something US business is no longer forced to buy locally. Those busineses can go to the Wallmart in India and China and buy the same thing at one tenth the price.
Just ask the unemployed medical specialist able to read Cat Scans. The hospital can send those scans to India and have an analysis within a half hour, at any hour of the day or night, at a fraction of the cost of a US staff worker.
If we don't change the rules of the game, it doesn't matter how many highly skilled engineers you trained in the most leading edge technologies, because they will not win the job contracts at the fees they need for a US cost of living.
That is unless you are training plumbers.
oops, my second paragraph got mangled. My intention was to write:
"... does the business manager outsource the work, -or- hire the US worker, taking the long view that this is better for the US economy...
My thoughts got ahead of me and I had not uttered a description of the alternate case.
HEY MSNBC- can we have a little longer than 4 minutes on the re-edit times of these posts?
Hey greenberg, stop with the grunting & groaning, you sound like farm animal
How are certain State Republican proposals that require a doctor to show a woman and the woman to look at the ultra-sound of her fetus by law, enforced?
You would almost wonder if the Republican leaders are thinking that the ‘bill’ for the procedure is the legal proof, suggesting that insurance companies are pushing the bill for money, along with anti-abortion extremists. However, uninformed Republican leaders may not realize that all doctors use an ultra sound before an abortion as a medical procedure to determine the position of the fetus in the womb before removing the fetus. Perhaps insurance companies are going to charge an additional fee for ‘showing’ the fetus.
Doctors have always been free to ask women if the want to see the ultra sound and women have always been free to see it or not.
This would be like the government legislating that you have to go to the church and look at a cross before or after you make a decision about something. The extremists are attempting to get the government to encourage women to change their minds about abortion, or otherwise, humiliate them.
Our government should not have the power to force any of us to look at something.
Frank, in the first tri-mester no ultra-sound is needed to locate the foetus/zygote. Ultra-sound law's only purpose is to humiliate the woman and generate $$.
The State and or Fed. have no right to legislate what my incubator does or does not do, my decisions, my choice, my body, my bedroom. Nobody try and thump a Bible at me, the bible is silent on the matter, not one word, not one sentence, not one paragraph. All made up hype, control women by controlling her anatomy.
We have two issues: 1) Choice - which is the major political issue, and 2) Abortion - which can be more a religious issue. A person can support Choice while being opposed to abortion. This distinction becomes increasingly more important given the Right's position of getting the government off the back of the individual. In These discussions these distinctions are not emphasized enough.
dstem, the bible is silent on abortion, not one word, yeah or nay. If the bible is the end all for the religious right how can abortion be opposed?
skyparrot, the pro life position is 'Thou shalt not kill.' covers abortion as well as murder. It would make things easier if Jesus had come down on one side or the other in the Scriptures but God left it to us fallible humans to work it out for ourselves.
If Jesus existed, maybe he thought it was wrong to interfere in women's personal business, and never realized anyone else would be stupid enough to do so.
I fully support women in the workplace, but I have spent a career as a single person watching the workplace become more and more single-unfriendly in the name of being family-friendly. When mom or dad go off to their kid's play, or teacher meeting, or are late because the kid is sick, who has to make up to slack at work, without additional compensation and generally without appreciation. In fact, even bringing up the subject you are accused of being heartless and not understanding how important kids are. Businesses provide "family benefits" without providing equivalent "single benefits", so family members effectively get pay and benefits greater than single people. When talking about women in the workplace, or family friendly policies (which affect male and female), we should remember that another choice is the choice not to get married, or not to have kids.
Kindly remember that kids are how we will continue our society 20 years from now. If parents do not care about their children they will never learn how to care for theirs 20 years from now and no one will care for anyone 40 years from now when you are retired. This is America - you are allowed to gripe about anything you wish, but be careful what you wish for, you may get it.
Parenting well is important. Society's support for good parenting is an investment. Neither excuses a lack of benefits for singles. I think the larger issue is treating workers like machines instead of human beings. In the civilized countries, every worker gets 4-6 weeks of paid vacation. Parenthood is supported through varied additional services, but so is the single worker via strong labor which assures adequate staffing in the first place. I think the US suffers from an ossified mindset from the Industrial Age approach to work.
Michelle Obama's speech comment that her primary title is "mom-in-chief" raises for me a very important issue about balance in the parenting responsibilities.
Parenting should be the top priority for both parents. When one of those parents has an economic opportunity to provide exceptionally well for the family, the other has to shoulder more of the parenting load. So, if the mother has an economic opportunity that makes her the primary bread winner, then fathers should bew willing to become "dad-in-chief."
I think daycare centers amounts to "outsourcing parenting." We did everything possible not to outsource our responsibilities. Parents who do so in deference to their careers, do so at their peril. They are outsourcing all the important things about parenting to others. Nothing compares to a mother or father's hug. Nothing compares to the warmth of the voice of a parent expressing love to a child. Nothing compares to a parent helping a child to take their first steps, and being there when they fall. Outsourcing doesn't make it batter. The consequences cannot be recovered from. Our children grow up distant from their parents, and the teenage confrontations that are natural cannot be resolved by the love of parents because that all-important foundation was outsourced.
I have 6 children and we don't do child care for any of them. This is Saturday, so I have a full schedule of officiating a soccer match, as well as running kids to 4 separate events.
I understand what you assert quite well and agree. However, there is a teensy teensy conditional you added. "When one of those parents has an economic opportunity to provide exceptionally well for the family...."The reality is that this scenario is incredibly rare.
Since the 70s, in order to make ends meet, June Cleaver has been entering the workforce out of economic necessity for the family. Now, Ward Cleaver simply doesn't make enough to be able to expect June to be home waiting for him with a Martini and the Beaver well looked after.
The reason why is that Ward's employer has to cut costs in order to compete with the Bain Capital company who has outsourced all its jobs to India. Ward is competing with an accountant in Bombay who understands perfectly US tax code for his locality.
What is ironic is that Romney pretends to offer a way back to the Ward Cleaver world of the past, while is actions have led to the dystopic family realities of present, and to much much deeper unemployment for the middle class in the future.
So much for family values. The profit motive really has no need for them.
I am a track and field official and see the sacrifices made by parents like you to provide that opportunity, so congratulations, John!
I want to add that there is a significant portion of the Bain Capital crowd who only look for the dividend check and nowhere else. We will hear from them when their dividends go down because there are no middle class customers for their company's goods, but by then it will be too late.
Is anyone else tempted to throw something at the tv when the MomsRising spokesperson is talking? Full disclosure: I'm a mom and a lawyer who worked full-time for 38 years. I couldn't love my daughter more. But I cringe when FLOTUS does her "mom-in-chief" bit. That's not what comes to mind when I watch one of her apperances. I'm cheering Jessica Valenti, the guest author of "Why Have Kids."
I understand your frustration. Mothers are passed over for jobs and promotions so often that we are taught to hide the fact that we have children. How many times are we asked if having children will interfere with our work availability, focus, etc? Dads are not asked this. By asserting our motherhood and not being "closet mommies", women in leadership and in the workforce in general make it easier for all parents (especially women) to say YES I am a parent. And, being one makes me an asset, not a liability. Perhaps FLOTUS is consciously tearing down the glass ceiling and the maternal wall when she emphasizes her mommy status.
Amazing-You will criticize ANYTHING that a Republican says or does. How in the world can you find fault in what Mrs. Romey said about motherhood? It appears that you're going out of your way to find something wrong.
Am not criticizing Mrs. Romney, its hard to relate to a mom (parents) caring for their children when both have to work, I had to work outside the home, Mrs. Romney did not, the rich do have it easier raising children on the day to day stuff, they certainly don't have to worry about the next meal or rent payment. Please put the issue in some walk in my shoes light. I am not faulting Mrs. Romney she knows no other life, it is what it is.
People don't need to share experiences in order to gain empathy for others. I work outside the home and have three children. While I wish that I could stay home with them, I can't. At the same, however, I don't hold ill-will (or appear to) towards those who can. Again, I don't know what it's like to be rich enough to stay home, but I don't claim that those who can don't understand my situation. Also, I didn't mean post twice. ;-)
Can a Republican do anything right in your view? How in the world can you find fault in what Mrs. Romney said about motherhood? It appears that you are going out of your way to find fault with everything that Republicans say or do.
I'm glad Jessica Valenti is on the show this morning and look forward to reading her book. I also cringed at the "mom in chief" line, for too many reasons to list here (but one being that, as the mom of two BOYS, I get really tired of the subtle and not-so subtle messages they get through various media about mothers basically holding the world together - it's as if they're being let off the hook before they're even out of middle school).
As for the single/childless/family divide...I think we should all try to keep from positioning ourselves against each other. An employer who makes allowances for family commitments is going to have happier employees, whether the allowance is for a single, childless guy to take his father to a doctor's appointment (a type of family care which is going to become more and more burdensome in the years ahead) or a dad to take his kids for their flu shot.
A childless colleague once berated me, when my kids were babies, about how women with children got to take time off without being taken less seriously at work (which just shows how out of touch he is with reality, but that's a different issue) while his wife didn't get to do the same. I was not in a position to argue with him, but I couldn't help wondering how many times she had ever been up all night with a baby with an ear infection and then had to get dressed and teach a class. Going off on me as if I was somehow taking things away from her, when I was so exhausted that I felt physically sick, was just obnoxious. So maybe if you have been accused of being heartless, you should look at the situation in which you have raised that issue.
The same person has twice quit a job to accompany her husband to teach in another country for a semester or year, and each time has been taken back. And those are opportunities that would have been nearly impossible for someone with a family to take. But it would be pointless for me to resent her freedom to travel, just as it's pointless for her to resent my freedom to leave work early because my two-year-old just threw up at preschool. Instead, we should both be appreciative of flexible employers and should encourage others to do the same whenever we have the chance.
Chris great show as usual. When I think about the auto bailout and the President bailing out the auto industry here is my thought on this. Paul Ryan said candidate Obama said he would keep the plant open in Wisconsin. As we well know the plant closed before the President was inaugurated but when the President bailed out the auto industry the responsibility became General Motors to re-open the plant. I do not know if my feelings are correct but since the auto bailout was given I feel the auto bailout may have included all plants regardless of location so it was General Motors responsibility to re-open the plant in Wisconsin. So if you view the bailout in the sense plants in Ohio and Michigan were rescued then Paul Ryan's beef is not with the President but with General Motors.
Second. When you talked about the President not talking about the Jobs Bill; when the President said he would create jobs in his next term; here are my thoughts on that. When I think about the number of times the Congress voted to repeal the Affordable Care Act it became an OMG moment. First the Republicans would have accused him of whining because the Jobs Bill did not pass. Second when you think of the number of times Congress tried to repeal the ACA then I am of the same opinion as Governor Patrick. The Democrats need to develop a backbone. The Jobs Bill went to the Senate in several different forms. How is it the Democrats did not take the Jobs Bill to the floor as many times as the Congress took the ACA bill? Let the Republicans filibuster as many times as they wanted and this would have confirmed the belief the Republicans did not care about the people of the United States because their only concern was to get rid of one person. No working across the aisle. Yes Governor Patrick is correct. THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO GET A BACKBONE.
Once the President bailed out the auto industry it became General Motors' responsibility to survive. If it works the way I think it does, then GM was lobbied by every Congressperson with a plant in their district unless Paul Ryan stayed true to his principles (once!) and rejected auto bailout funds. It would not surprise me if GM and the President had more enthusiastic people to listen to. Let us make sure those in Janesville, WI understand that when they vote for Congress November 6.
Barbara, we were able to do both, have 2 boys and lived in Jakarta, Indonesia for a year, husband in Oil Gas Industry, extroidinary opportunity for the family. Can be done.
Anyone know why the Republicans hold up the vote on the Violence Against Women Act, its a no-brainer.
1) It is a bill the President will not veto. Remember the mantra - DO NOT GIVE THIS PRESIDENT ANYTHING TO POINT TO AS AN ACCOMPLISHMENT.
2) It allows for abortions of rape victims' pregnancies.
You totally ignore the problem many mothers have when they MUST quit their jobs to care for their children, leaving them with minimal social security payments when they reach eligibility age and for whatever reasons could not return to the workforce. They end up living out their days in abject poverty. This is often the case for single moms and for divorced moms who cannot collect on their ex-husband's social security accounts.
This is a problem that is so under-reported it is almost criminal.
We have these blinders on. We hear a fellow Dem begin to say things about out sourcing and machines and we prepare ourselves to hear another rendition of some medieval approach to protecting markets with tariffs and neo luddism about mechanisation. "No no no, let's have the mature debate- the 'real' debate. Let's regurgitate the stock lines of the cyclical- structural debate." It was mind numbing watching Up's segment on economic issues this morning.
Utterly awful.
Ok, let's be adult. Can we step back from this a little bit more and take the broader view? Throughout all those solutions to the multiple cycles and the many solutions to structural shifts in the needs for new economies over the past 40 years, there is an overall trend that is absolutely consistent in spite all those "successful" solutions to those structural and cyclical problems. And it tells of a story of the miserable failure of both approaches.
There is the trajectory of US GDP.
There is the trajectory of Middle class income.
So the cyclical guys have it right that it is a demand problem, but they have it wrong in that it is not a huge structural problem, only structural no in the narrow sense of skills mismatch but structural in the sense of whether businesses have any tangible incentives to increase US jobs numbers and salaries.
Because structurally, they have every incentive not to. With a system of payroll credits similar in incentivization theory to a system carbon credits, business managers would have an indestructible reason to tell their bosses that they are hiring a US engineer rather than one in New Delhi. The consequences of not hiring the US engineer whose compensation package costs five to 10 times as much is that the company will not acquire the necessary amount of US payroll credits to avoid confiscatory corporate taxes on profits. (For more than this thumbnail sketch, tThere is more detail in a maddowblog thread discussing this yesterday)
As is apparent, we are playing the stock idiotic political memes and games that are played out around every economic blip that have happen every 10 to 15 years for the last 200 years. The political hacks know that all that matters is that you dance the dance well and everything will be fine for your party. You go by the playbook and just ride it out.
Well it is crap because those GDP vs household income plots give you the irrefutable 10,000 foot view of why constriction of demand is structural with a capital S.
Thanks for discussing the politics of motherhood on the show. These issues are so critical to moms, but rarely get discussed by the national media in a thoughtful, non-sensational way. Great to hear discussions about policies like paid family leave and affordable childcare!
Agreed! Nice segment. I'd love to see more conversations about this and what kind of public policy it's going to take to make America really family friendly - thinks like paid leave, fair pay, paid sick days, affordable childcare. So glad these panelist got more than 5 minutes and a sound bite to dig a little into these issues. Also, congrats to @upwithchris on the new baby!
I couldn't agree more. "Family-friendly" is human friendly. Singles have ailing parents, siblings with sick kids, sick siblings, significant others for whom they must care as well. People-friendly policies and laws will enhance life for all of us. We could probably create millions of jobs immediately with fully funded better social policies!
What is this crazy insistence on depending just on the private sector to create enough jobs for every worker in this country? That will never happen! I don't think it's even possible! We require public sector jobs which provide public services we all need and want!
Does Chris Hayes identify himself as a Democrat? Or, like Rachel Maddow, does he separate himself from the Democratic party? I wish some of the cloaked MSNBC hosts would actually politically identify themselves. People took for granted for years that Maddow was a Democrat and it is only in the last month that she told "Rolling Stone" that she is not a Democrat. She said for a long while that she was a Progressive, but she isn't. It was all very clearly and unquestionably disingenuous and dishonorable on Doctor Maddow's part. She's more of a corporate liberal. It seems probable that Hayes falls into the same category as Maddow, and actually represents only a very, very small % of Americans who are the left of the left of the left. . Does he identify himself as a liberal .... or a progressive? Real Democrats actually seem to be a relative minority at MSNBC. In seems that corporate NBC/MSNBC has quite a gaggle of quasi Democrats, who seem to pretend to be real Democrats. MSNBC is corporate political media, and only 10% of Americans currently approve of American corporate political media. One reason only 10% approve is surely the disingenuousness of the craft. So why not have Hayes come out in public and declare where he stands on the political spectrum? Or perhaps he could at least declare where he doesn't stand, like Doctor Maddow did in "Rolling Stone?" At this point, the Maddow experience for example makes it extremely difficult to trust MSNBC or corporate political media. David Gregory's corporate shilling and Maddow's disingenuous and distruthful example along with other disingenuous "liberal" corporate pundits moved me firmly into the same category as the 80% of Americans who don't trust American corporate political media. Tons of Dems. bailed out on Maddow after her year of Obama bashing in 2010. . Her record is one of disingenuous dishonesty and Hayes shouldn't get caught in the same trap. Perhaps Hayes could help to re establish some trust and truthfulness in American political media by simply telling the truth as to his political standing. He should just tell the truth.
Gobama!
Right wing concern troll is concerned.
In the Rolling Stone interview Rachel states unambiguously "I am a liberal" and no where does she say she is not a Democrat. Nice try at pretending to be a concerned Democrat troll.
We shouldn't feed the trolls. There's lot's of junk food for them over at Fox or at Redstate.
Maddow said she isn't a Democrat. That is the truth.
"I’m just trying to say a nice thing, and already, ‘You’re a hack!...................’> Maddow cried. "Listen, dude, I'M NOT EVEN A DEMOCRAT!"
Maddowites are the meanest folks on the blogs, and Gobama 2012!
There is an attempt by some on the far out left to present themselves as mainstream Democrats. They are not. MSNBC also perhaps attempts to present their inhouse corporate far lefties as representing the Democratic Party, but they don't. . If Hayes is not a Democrat, he should just come out and say it. Maddow finally did, but not before she allowed the pretense to linger for years that she was indeed a Democrat. She isn't and she finally admitted it. Democrats figured it out in 2010. .
Correction: The Maddow voiced quote, "Listen Dude, I'm Not Even a Democrat" is actually taken from an exchange with Nick Gillespie on "Real Time with Bill Maher."
Hayes shouldn't allow himself to be permanently compromised as to professional respectability, like Rachel Maddow. Maddow will never, ever be seen as politically respectable again by mainstream Democrats who are familiar with her disingenuous and untruthful corporate political posturing. She's a proven fake. Chris Hayes should learn from her folly, and not repeat it. People respect truthfulness. Hayes can set himself on the top of the heap of the professionally cynical punditry if he just tells the >actual truth< as to his political identity. Actual truth, not corporate connivance is the key to respectability. Folks don't respect fakes.
Do you have any substantive arguments about positions Hayes has taken, or is it your view that ad hominem is sufficient? If the latter, you go on the ignore list.
My advice to Hayes is good advice, imo.. He need not become compromised. Gobama!
Anyone else interested in bypassing spam posts by non serious posters, click on the person's name, then in the upper right corner you will see an item, ignore author. After this, all of their comments will be collapsed, and only those who have substantive things to say are visible.
Any responses you post to one of their top level comments will also be hidden, so besides the advice to not feed the trolls, no one else will see your witty comebacks.
Gobama 2012 ... Yes we can...again.
I'm a Democrat. Get used to it.
hayes is nothing more than a demo hack, in other words a CS.
Hayes hasn't said that he's a Democrat. He might not be a Democrat.
Hayes is with "The Nation" magazine which doesn't represent the Democratic Party.
Another good show. It's so refreshing to hear intelligent people talking about real issues honestly. No wonder there are so many trolls here. You won't get much in the way of honesty or intelligence on Fox or on Meet the Republican (And John McCain), Face the Republicans (and John McCain) or This Week with the Republicans (and John McCain).
The quote is actually from "Real Time with Bill Maher." The Maddow quote was in response to Nick Gillespie. I thought the quote was also in "The Rolling Stone" interview, but apparently I was incorrect. The quote is from Bill Maher's program and is easily verifiable on the internet. Maddow said, "Listen Dude, I'm not even a Democrat. "
Maddowites, in many instances, are simply off the planet. They create their own realities. All who dissent or critique in regard to Doctor Maddow may be seen as right wing fanatics in their eyes. They really tend to be far out. They can't help it. The far out left is an inverse mirror image of the far right. That is the truth.
I think we need a gender quota in state legislatures and Congress if we want to quickly and seriously address personalizing the political. 53% of the workforce can not be represented by officials who do not support equal rights for women and equal pay for equal work. Or was that 50% of the workforce is female with 53% of them being head of household? Either way, their interests are not being represented.