On tomorrow's Up w/ Chris Hayes, we'll be discussing the Supreme Court's return to Washington -- and its absence from the presidential campaign. We'll look ahead to some of the landmark cases on the docket in the next term, gleaning clues to possible outcomes from the justices' past decisions. We'll also examine President Obama's speech to the United Nations General Assembly this week, where he offered a vigorous defense of free speech in the same city where "anti-jihad" ads have been making news.
Joining Chris tomorrow at 8 AM ET on MSNBC will be:
Mona Eltahawy (@monaeltahawy), activist and award-winning columnisr. Eltahawy was arrested on Tuesday night after spray-painting over one of the controversial "anti-jihad" ads appearing in New York City subway stations.
Jeffrey Toobin (@JeffreyToobin), author of "The Oath: The Obama White House and the Supreme Court," senior legal analyst at CNN and staff writer at "The New Yorker."
Nan Aron, president of Alliance for Justice, which she founded in 1979.
Barbara Arnwine, President and executive director of the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, member of the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty and Equal Justice Works.
Akhil Amar, Sterling Professor of law and political science at Yale University where he teaches constitutional law at both Yale College and Yale Law School, author of "America's Unwritten Constitution: the Precedents and Principles We Live By."
Elise Boddie, director of litigation for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.
:: Blogged by Katherine Guthrie (@kguth1130), production assistant for Up w/ Chris Hayes, and Sal Gentile (@salgentile), segment & digital producer for Up w/ Chris Hayes. ::
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mondoweiss.net/2012/09/pro-israel-ads-suggesting-muslims-are-savage-set-to-arrive-in-ny-subways-next-week.html
mondoweiss.net/2012/09/subway-ad-gets-a-make-over-revealing-its-true-character.html
mondoweiss.net/2012/09/gellers-savage-ad-displays-the-racism-inherent-in-israeli-colonization.html
Geller’s ‘savage’ ad displays the racism inherent in Israeli colonization
In her latest attempt to fan the flames of Islamaphobia, anti-Arab sentiments, and blind allegiance to Israel across America, Pamela Geller launched an ad campaign imploring Americans, “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel, defeat Jihad”.
As Dr. Hamid Dabashi writes, Geller’s antiquated language harks back to that used by white supremacists against any number of colonized people of color who were seen as ‘uncivilized’, and today Muslims, Palestinians, Arabs—they are the savages du jour. Geller has succeeded in resurrecting the colonial call for defense against the ‘savages’; her language has squarely placed Israel in the position of colonizer. Activists have jumped on this opportunity amending some ads to read, “In any war between the colonizer and the colonized, support the oppressed. Support the Palestinian Right of Return, defeat racism.”
Also, watch this video:
mondoweiss.net/2012/09/mona-eltahawy-arrested-for-defacing-gellers-racist-savage-ad-in-nyc-subway.html
Hate speech is legal, but non-violent protest against it is apparently illegal.
"Geller’s ‘savage’ ad displays the racism inherent in Israeli colonization"
Bullcrap. Pammela Geller is stark raving mad. She is clinically insane, paranoid and delusional. The ravings of a mad woman say nothing about larger political issues.
In other words: She's a Zionist!
Religion the root of all evil.
More people have been killed in the name of God than any other reason.
It's the MONEY. All the coming SCOTUS decisions are for the long term. Voting Rights, Affirmative Action, all open the way to BUSINESS inserting itself without constraint into the Constitution. Once there is NO affirmative Action, The established Colleges and schools will get only the highest achieving students. The leftovers - to JP Morgan, Chase, etc and their for profit schools. Voting- If the court can constrain voting irregularities, then corporate laws (ALEC) can buy local and state offices. With Roberts and Kennedy there is the logical problem that they take an open door and strike at far reaching concepts never intended in the presented case. Instead of expanding voting rights they are far more likely to kill it. Those two don't like ruling on a narrow single confined case.
Amar got closest to speaking about this, but the activated meme about wondering whether the democrats will be too timid as they have in the past is pathetic. Senators did not get where they have by being unaware about the exercise of power, or timid in exercising it. This is all about whether the grand club of elite males keep their power or not.
Because castration anxiety is what keeps Democratic Senators from using the nuclear option. Just read the hand wringing of the Senators over a minor use of the nuclear option to limit making time wasting unrelated amendments to Senate bills: (abcnews story).
Say Obama does put up a pro labor, feminist progressive lawyer and there is a failure on cloture for confirmation. Would it end by withdrawal of the candidate or the nuclear option, and the Senate proceeds to fill the open federal seats with staunchly progressive candidates? Would Reid do it? If he steps down, would Schumer?
I don't think Patty Murray fears castration as much as they do. I think everyone understands the asymmetric lack of reciprocity by the Right, but I simply believe that Reid or Schumer are more motivated to protect the power of a Senator rather than the power of women to make their own reproductive choices.
Reid made a gentleman's agreement with McConnell not to brutally exercise the nuclear option. Does anyone seriously doubt that if the republicans had the white house and a majority in the Senate that they would not use the nuclear option to get their anti Roe candidate on the Court? So why persist in the charade? If Reid will not do so, he may well feel honor bound not to break his word. That's fine, but his successor should not be the obvious choice- Schumer. It is a shame this analysis got no attention because it is central to inevitable upcoming battle regardless who wins the elections. Such an analysis should consider an aggressive choice- someone like Patty Murray who has discussed the nuclear option (see DailyKos 2005). She can be put up as Senate Majority leader as a statement to the Right wing of the consequences of obstructionism. She needs to be the stand-in for Reid, not Schumer.
If we are going to have a mother of all battles, put in a muthah. Put in someone who will fight like hell for Roe. After ramming through the Justices and federal judge appointments, then a compromise could be offered. Senate rules would be restored, Reid could take the Leadership back, and the GOP would agree to return to responsible governance absent the gratuitous obstructionism they have indulged in during our worst national economic crisis since the depression.
What you geeks call a Troll, I call a community organizer trying to get the public angry enough to get involved with the GOOD FIGHT cyberbitchslap2.blogspot.com
The internet is the greatest organizing tool in the history of mankind and the geeks are stuck on stupid playing games or watching porn. Social media sites such as Twitter and news comment boards are already shutting us down While conservatives are allowed their substantial propaganda media empire
Bravo to Mona Eltahawy. Free speech is one thing. Ditto "offensive speech." Shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is something else. This billboard campaign is deliberately inflammatory and an insult to Jews, Arabs and peace-seeking people everywhere.
It is interesting to me that no one seems to have brought up either "Hustler V Falwell" or "NYT v Sullivan". Statements made without regard for their validity or truth, IE libelous statements, are not considered protected speech, especially when made about private citizens, or a group that has not chosen to enter the public sphere.
Toobin and Hayes are sooooo condescending in their interview with Eltahaway. Here's Chris -- "Mohammed Morsi...uh I think he's considered the president of Egypt. Right?" Does Hayes really think this woman, who is Egyptian, doesn't know who Morsi is? And Toobin -- slowing down his speech like Eltahaway doesn't understand English. As much as I can't stand Ann Coulter, her comment the other day about liberal white racism is starkly on point.
I just watched the segment with Mona Eltahawy and frankly Chris, I have a bone to pick with you. You stated that you live by the axiom: "Don't feed the trolls" and that you try to "ignore" all that. Well, that may be great for you, but do you realize what "ignoring the trolls" has done to this country? Don't you realize that when the "trolls" get away with crossing lines, that it only emboldens them to go farther? "Don't feed the trolls" has given us this great unstable Republican Party that we now all have to deal with. "Don't feed the trolls" has given us Citizens United. "Don't feed the trolls" has allowed us to ignore for DECADES what was happening in this country! "Don't feed the trolls" has become synonymous with "hiding your head in the sand"!
Do you think we would have a major political party run by extremists if someone had just stood up and said "NO", we will NOT tolerate or ignore that anymore!"! Do you think that people would be personally attacking Obama and his family with scurrilous books and blogs if someone had the guts to stand up and say NO to this type of rhetoric when Gingrich was attacking Clinton? Or when John Kerry was being attacked by the "Swift Boat" idiots?
While I am very much in favor of "free speech", there are limits - and one of those limits is that it isn't free speech if it is used to "incite" people or to "publicly defame" your personal enemies.
Ms. Geller used the courts to assert her right to free speech by having a hateful anti-Islam ad placed in a location that would intentionally incite people AND then she had her "friends" stand around to see what would happen. Is this REALLY "free speech" - especially because she know beforehand that someone would react to her "message"? Ms. Eltawahy is a hero because she chose to perform an act of civil disobedience and she chose to take whatever punishment comes from that act!
Civil Disobedience is one of the most important tools a citizen has when the "powers that be" are aligned against what is right and just. Where would civil rights in this country be without the acts of civil disobedience against "white rule" in the South? What would have happened with the Viet Nam "police action" if it weren't for civil disobedience. I could go on an on with what "civil disobedience" has done for this country, but you get the hint, I am sure!
Have we forgotten the lessons of Emerson and Thoreau? Does anyone even read Emerson and Thoreau any more? Does anyone even know who they are?
For you to challenge Ms. Eltawahy's right to do what she did, instead of congratulating her on her use of Civil Disobedience really disappointed me. You seem to be intent of defeating "hate" with "niceness" - it just doesn't work!! Sometimes you just have to stand up and be strong!!
That's exactly right.
Dear Mr Hayes,
A voting rights bill needs to do nothing more than definitively affirm that every American citizen over 18 can vote. Period. No redistricting, no South versus North, no African American and Latino versus white. In case people have not noticed, we have far more than three ethnicities in this country, and as we continue to blend the "usual" groups will mean even less with respect to the entire population. The only thing a voting rights bill needs to do is make it clear to every one that voter suppression never acceptable, ever. Done. Problem solved.
Now, let's address the question as to how bigot Pamela Geller's subway ad silenced Mona Eltahawy. Directly it did not, but you did, the NYPD did, by arresting her and by you telling her to just ignore it and 'not feed the trolls.' Seriously?
Let's get real about free speech. We all know damn well that ad is not free speech. We know racism, and hate when we hear it, it isn't subtle, it blatantly incites fear and prejudice with the intent to spread hate, which our courts have ruled against as recent as 2011. You can try to argue it as abstractly as you want, but if speech is used as a weapon to hurt, especially in a face-to-face confrontational way such as on a website, public sign, or a guy yelling on the corner, again, we need to say, "NO," then end the conversation.
Stop telling hated people to keep silent about it, and start telling haters to shut up.
Gobama!
unless i missed it today from what i can tell no-one took up the issue of the latest "suppression" by GOP, involving Sproul & Co. accused of changing voter registrations from Dems & Independents 2 Repubs...is this not important? just saying...
Your program is incredibly informative, but I felt that your discussion this morning regarding free speech was based on your view of the world from an urban East coast perspective. Do you really think free speech lives in this country? Do you honestly think that a Ku Klux Klan ad or a poster regarding the pedophilia sins of the Catholic Church would have gone up in the first place? Freedom is culturally relative...what's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. I am a liberal Democrat from Kansas and I can assure you that censorship is alive and well in the our country. Your discussion failed to look at the real world. You only discussed the ideal one.
In reference to your discussion about the religious "diversity" on the Supreme Court, I found it amusing when Akhil Amar said that "there aren't religious tests" for these positions. What?
In the history of the Supreme Court, can you name just one out-of-the-closet atheist? How about the Presidency? The Senate? How many Representatives? The answer is zero, which indicates that we DO have a religious litmus test in this country. You cannot win an election in this country without it.
The Nature of Trolls
A Group of Elitist Trolls take a lumbering Stand and bullish Charge for Money and Mega-Corporations Being a Single Entity called People ( the Supreme Citizen‘s United‘s Law, the Statewide Anti-Voting Rights Laws, the Statewide Anti-Women‘s Rights Laws, etc…), and give it, through the Money they pay-out to lobbyists, lawyers, in-the-pocket- legislators and the occasional ejudicator, the Roar of the Law-of-the-Land.
The Ripple Effect of these premeditated Actions Give those with More Money (ching ! ching !) and the Bosses who Own Mega-Corporations (who Own even more and other companies and corporations) a much louder Vocal (and Game Changing) Roar, and Power of the Voting Voice, throughout the Land.
Elitist Trolls propagandize and manipulatively thunp and whump, and huff and puff, their voracious Wills through the radio airwaves, boob-tube pixel-waves and internet surfing turf waves Their Self (not primarily Other-Centered) agendas, and Puppet Vocal Echoes of Their wishes and desires, because Money has been given a dis-proportional Gale of Wind behind Their Troll Roars.
A Single 99% Troll writes an Article or Story - or ‘Stirs the Pot’ of the Workings of the Elitist Trolls Intentions and Actions on the Internet, on various Blog Sites or Internet Magazines in order to Stimulate Awareness, Discourse, Intentions and Actions to Rise-Up and Protect the Voices and Empowerments of the Many, the 100%, in order to Nurture and Sustain some semblance of a Balance of Powers and Basic Human Rights for All, and They, too, Create a Roar, an Empowering Voice which strives against All Forms of Dis-Enfranchisement. EveryOne, who Stands Up and gives Voice to their Opinion - their Belief - their Experience - their Idea is a Troll.
We, All of Us, have an Inner-Troll that will emerge from its Cave or from out of the very Ground we’re grounded upon to Roar, Thump and Whump, Stomp and Clomp, Huff and Puff, Wheeze and Glare at Folks or Actions/Non-Actions which Dis-Please our raw-boned Troll sensibilities.
Yep, there’s no way around it. It’s inevitable. Trolls will always be in the “Poke ‘em With A Stick” Behavioral Modification business of feeding other Trolls. It’s the Nature of Oppositional Free Speech. It’s the Nature of Trolls.
Concerning Mona Eltahawy's actions in spray painting the offensive subway advertisement, I have only one problem with the way the story was presented. She is repeatedly called a journalist but in this case, she is not a journalist but the STORY. She is making social commentary and it is disingenuous to represent her as just a reporter exercisng her legal rights. The story is far more complicated than that.
Y'know, sometimes I watch this show and others on MSNBC and I'm so frustrated when I see obvious connections completely ignored. One was the discussion of blasphemy laws this morning as if they only occur outside America.
What is a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, as is the case in 31 states, other than a law created to prevent citizens from committing what many Christian right-wingers perceive as blasphemy, gay people marrying each other? Similarly, what are all the laws restricting abortion other than an attempt by conservative Christians to bring the law of their own jurisdictions in line with what they perceive as biblical morality? Or how about the reality that in America if you're gay or transgender it's legal to fire you or refuse to rent to you in 34 states while other minorities are protected under the law from that kind of discrimination?
The truth is that we have anti-blasphemy laws all across America and at the federal level, we just don't call them that, we define them as social issues. It's frankly amazing to me that neither Chris nor any of his excellent panelists drew that connection this morning.
You nailed it, Rebecca! I wonder what it would be like if the religionists returned to their churches and stayed out of public governance. It's their freedom to exercise their religion which is protected. They do not have the privilege of abusing the rest of us with their religious rules and superstitions. It's funny they don't seem to notice that human rights are far more ethical and just than their myriad requirements.
Right on sister. You hit the nails on the head!
Mr Hayes was a total disappointment today. Apparently, he's a supporter of racism. He suggested that Ms Eltahawy should ignore the racist ads. And he's in favour of affirmative action, i.e. race-based discrimination.
Didn't black people in the USA fight hard AGAINST race-based discrimination and FOR colour-blindness? Now, they suddenly advocate the exact opposite. Oh, the irony! I don't know whether to laugh or cry. People really need to make up their minds. Do they want race to matter or not? You can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you support affirmative action, then you have no right to complain about other kinds of race-based discrimination.
Also, the statement that the end of affirmative action is tantamount to resegregation is complete BS and totally racist in itself. This sounds as if non-white people were mentally retarded and couldn't make it to college without a race bonus. However, non-white people are as capable as white people of achieving things on their own. Non-white people as well as white people deserve to be chosen based on their abilities. Race is a totally meaningless feature that doesn't say anything about you.
How can a state teach its citizens that race-based discrimination is wrong when the state itself allows race-based discrimination at universities? The state needs to lead by example, because people orientate themselves by the state. By allowing universities to take race into account, the state conveys the message that race-based discrimination is okay. Also, as long as it is legal to have race as a determining factor, every rejected person will become suspicious and wonder whether the rejection was because of race. This will cause resentment to people of other races and increase societal racism. What I am trying to say is that in order to get rid of societal racism, you need to end legal racism first.
"...He suggested that Ms Eltahawy should ignore the racist ads. And he's in favour of affirmative action, i.e. race-based discrimination...."
Affirmative Action isn't racist, Dorothea, it's a tool for equalization which applies to all races; white/caucasian included. If you were a member of a minority applying to a school which was predominantly attended, taught, and administered by a different race, then history has shown you might not get serious consideration for acceptance. So, among many other standards and criteria, your diverse ethnicity might weigh in your favor for admission.
As long as economics and race create advantages/disadvantages, there must be some way that qualified and interested people can at least get the opportunity to attend different schools, qualify for fair bank loans, live in an environmentally safe neighborhood, etc.
Speaking of free speech how come Gary Johnson is being excluded from the debates? A sponsor has pulled support because they have determined the commission to be bi-partisan instead of non-partisan. Just got this off the Libertarian website.
Philips has withdrawn its sponsorship of the presidential debates. Here is their statement:
"The Commission on Presidential Debates is a nonprofit, 501(c) (3) corporation dedicated to providing a platform to the U.S. public – in the form of presidential and vice-presidential debates – which serves to inform voters on a variety of issues. Philips, a company with roots in the U.S spanning more than eight decades, supports the goals and ideals of having a more engaged and informed electorate. Philips also has a long and proud heritage of being non-partisan in the many countries it serves around the world. While the Commission on Presidential Debates is a non-partisan organization, their work may appear to support bi-partisan politics. We respect all points of view and, as a result, want to ensure that Philips doesn’t provide even the slightest appearance of supporting partisan politics. As such, no company funds have been or will be used to support the Commission on Presidential Debates.
Kind regards,
Mark
Mark A. Stephenson
Head of Corporate Communications, Philips North America
(contact info deleted by me)
Just try to find out what the rules are that the enablers, er moderators have to follow.
And now the YWCA has dropped too. I know there is a lot of pressure for Southwest airlines to drop and I imagine on A. Busch too
Money is speech and withholding money is shouting! Boycott everything but UP!
The statement from the YWCA;
YWCA CEO Dara Richardson-Heron, M.D. wrote, "As a nonpartisan organization dedicated to eliminating racism, empowering women and promoting peace, justice, freedom and dignity for all, we have decided to withdraw our sponsorship effective immediately."
Hasn't history has taught us that speaking reasonably to fascists doesn't work - period.
Speaking reasonably to the powers that be didn't help blacks get their freedom and prevent civil war. It didn't help women get the vote. It didn't help blacks get civil and voting rights. It didn't work in the 1930s with Germany. And it certainly hasn't helped dems compromise and govern with today's right wing radical fascist AKA republicans.
Trolls are folks on message boards that disrupt and spew nonsense. Pam Geller is not a troll. Pam Geller and the Zionists and colonialists she represents view the group they designate as 'the other' as sub-human. This is what any authoritarian or fascist regime does to make that group's elimination understandable and reasonable. This is how we train our solders to kill when we are going off to one of our corporate wars to kill Vietnamese, Arabs, Filipinos, Japanese and even 'the Hun'..
Wresting change from an authoritarian group in power requires civil disobedience at a minimum, and this is what Mona Eltahawy's actions spray painting the offensive subway advertisement did. If no one objects visibly to these despicable posters, then they are condoned and their message normalized. Go back and look a Rwanda, Turkey, Germany to name JUST three. There are many, many more examples.
Good on you Mona Eltahawy and shame on Chris and his panel for their narrow, politically correct view of these events.
PS to above, for examples of dehumanizing the other at home in the USA, look at our treatment of native Americans, Chinese, Mexicans, Muslims, and of course blacks.
I'm watching the podcast of this (the Sunday show) and on the subject of the Voting Rights Act, and how its manifestation, that of the offense, has moved north. The suggestion by the right wing of the court is that the VRA is passé, the South is much changed, African American office holders are many, &c. Chris says this northern version should be added to the VRA and I agree completely, but with this specification:
I'd like to suggest that this new wrinkle is indeed new (and old at the same time) in that the older incarnation was truly race-based, but this new one is class-based. Now you have dirty tricks against, yes, minorities, but also against students, and the elderly, and especially the poor of all races.
This is raw power politics. It's the death agony of the "old white guy" network, and it's more about privilege than about race. Sure, being white in the South was a privileged role, but we're seeing it maybe for the first time for what it really is.
It is the duty and the assigned task of this generation (I include myself at 66!) to clarify and manifest and remove all doubt that OPPRESSION BY THE PRIVILEGED CLASS IS UN-AMERICAN.
Some great Green Party and Independent Green Party candidates for you to have on the show like Doctor Jill Stein - Green Party Presidential candidate - and Janet Murphy Independent Green Party candidate for U.S. House of Representatives.
Doctor Stein
Janet Murphy Independent Green Party
Chris, when are you going to post the video of Mayor Giuliani sending you to your room without dinner after O's flop of a debate?
about this right wing notion that unemployment figures and other benchmarks are politically manipulated - they will soon suggest that our back porch thermometers are rigged to promote their global warming theory